Mindless Artificial Artists

[00:00:10] I cannot stop yawning. My eyes are watering profusely. Okay. Anybody else's eyes water when they yawn? I forgot for a second and all I heard was I cannot stop yawning my eyes. I was like, okay. I could yawn through my nose. What is happening to you right now?

[00:00:39] You were perfectly fine for several hours and all of a sudden, oh no. I don't know. Sleepy time. So apparently the people who eyes water when they yawn, it's because the facial muscles contract and squeeze your tear glands and then it forces out tears while blocking your tear ducts, which prevents it from draining away. That makes sense, but why doesn't it happen to everybody? I could not tell you.

[00:01:09] Oh my gosh. What is happening? Somebody send help. You need some energy drink or something? I don't know what's going on with you. I don't know. My body's like weird. Anywho, hello. Welcome back to Mindless Prattle. It's episode 169, right? No, it's 68. 68? 69. It's 169. Okay, good.

[00:01:40] 69. Hell yeah. Okay. I'm Ripley. That's Jordon. And we're going to talk to you about some stuff and hopefully you don't hate it. Although if you're here, I'm assuming you don't because it's been two whole minutes and by this point, if you didn't like it, you'd just be kind of gone. So welcome to our podcast. Take it away, Jordan. I was just looking through on YouTube. I didn't realize how many people that I was subscribed to.

[00:02:09] How do you see how many people you're subscribed to? What do you see? How many people are? Like this one. But it doesn't show me a number. How do I see a number? I mean, I just counted. I don't have that many. Oh. I have way too many to count. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. That's why I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, let's see. I can scroll to the bottom.

[00:02:37] What is, why don't I, I don't know why am I subscribed to some of these? I'm going to unsubscribe from some of these. Like, I don't even know who some of these are. Okay. I gave up at 35. I don't want to count them all. Okay. I don't think mine's 35. It's just more than I thought, you know. There are a bunch of random people I'm subscribed to too. Some of them I'm like, okay.

[00:03:07] Like, I, they must have been like a Twitter person, something I subscribed to, you know. And then some of these I'm like, I think I just got bought as a follower, you know. Yeah. Like some of these I've, I don't even remember watching any of the videos and yet somehow I'm subscribed to them. Like this one. What, why would I have subscribed to this? I don't even know who this is. Amanda the Jedi is my favorite YouTuber. On subscribe.

[00:03:38] I subscribe to Amoeba Sisters. They focus on high school biology. Like some of these I recognize, but a lot of these I don't. I don't know who this is, but I follow someone named Epoxy. And they got 65,000 subscribers. Some of these I might have just subscribed to for like, like a sweet steak or something. Like this one, like NVIDIA. Why would I subscribe to NVIDIA's YouTube? It doesn't make any sense to me, you know. Yeah.

[00:04:08] No clue. I also think that I might have just accidentally tapped on some of these. Like if I'm scrolling through shorts or something and just accidentally tap subscribe. Mm-hmm. Because some of these I'm like, yeah, I've seen their videos, but I don't like them enough to be subscribed to them. I think that's probably fine. Anyway, we got off track there. Yeah, I was just going to YouTube. Oh, yeah. Sorry.

[00:04:36] I was looking at some of our old videos for a second there. Some of these I'm like, who the fuck is this? Like two of these are the same person and I'm pretty sure they're AI. And I'm pretty sure they just bought me as a follower. If you have a song that you really like and then you find out that the artist is AI, do you stop liking that song or do you still listen to it? I'd stop liking the song. You'd stop liking the song just entirely? Yeah. Like the other day, the world's top most listened to song was AI.

[00:05:05] And I'm like, as an actual like performing artist, I would be so fucking pissed if I like got beat out by AI. Like they're not real. They're not real vocals. It's not real music. A computer did all the work for you. What is real music though? Like just because you didn't sing it doesn't mean it's not the real music, right? Like it itself is music, but it wasn't created by like a real person.

[00:05:35] So like, like synthwave and stuff like that. It's a different type of music, but it's still made by people. I think that in order for it to count on if it didn't count on charts and things like that, I don't think it would bother me. So you, you are fine with it existing. You just don't like that people are recognized for like creating that? Because they didn't write those lyrics. They didn't write the song. They didn't write the music.

[00:06:03] They had a computer program do that for them just by stealing other people's work. So if somebody wrote the computer program that, that created this, then it would be fine. No. Why? They're creating it. But the computer program is creating it. If you program something to create that music and then the music was created from your program, what's the, how is that different? Because it's a program that's like scraping the internet and stealing bits and pieces of other music to make their own music.

[00:06:34] How do you know that? Because that's how AI works. You're telling me every single AI that's ever existed is stealing. Generative AI is stealing, yes. No, that's not what I'm asking you. But the music that like is going viral online for being AI is made using generative AI. Okay. That's, I'm not talking about that stuff right now. I'm talking about what you would find acceptable if a computer created it.

[00:06:59] Like if you typed in a bunch of musical notes into a program and said, clean this up for me and it cleaned it up for you, right? Are you telling me that that person shouldn't be on any charts or get any credit because the computer program cleaned up their audio? What do you mean by cleaned up?

[00:07:16] Like if you, if you were on a sound mixing program and you put in all, you know, some music, 30 seconds of music, and you told the, your, the program to clean up the music so it flowed a little bit better. So the transition between the sounds was smoother. You've used a program, an artificial program to change the music that you put in there. But that's the same as any audio program. Right. Cleaning up audio. That's what I'm saying.

[00:07:45] But that's not what people are doing with AI music. How do you know? Because they're having the AI write the music for them. They're not writing their own song and then going, AI, can you make this a little better for me? Can you confirm that every single artist that's using AI is doing that though? I'd say probably the majority of them are. That would be like me going, oh, well, I wrote a paragraph and then I had AI write me a whole book based off of my paragraph. But I wrote the paragraph, so I wrote the book. Like that's not how AI works. In those cases, yes.

[00:08:13] But you're telling me that every single person that uses any AI is using generative AI for the whole song. I mean, I feel like they should have to prove that they're not. That's different though. That's very different. The things that I've heard come up on your Spotify, for example, like it's an AI person singing AI lyrics by AI artists. Like they're not making those. When you look them up, like they've used the AI to do every single part of the song.

[00:08:40] So I don't feel like that should be allowed on charts because you didn't put the work into that. Okay. And that's fine. We got that part. I'm asking a different question now, not related to the charts part. I'm asking like what is the balance between the two? I think right now there's just not a good one. So it's like... Right.

[00:09:01] So you're just blanketing, like hating everything to do with AI, even though it's been used for a long time on a lot of different people's music. Like I guarantee you've listened to songs of people who have wrote the music and written the lyrics and sang it and then ran it through auto-tune and you still liked the song. Yeah, because that's not the same thing. But they're using technology to change how the song sounds.

[00:09:27] But that's not the same thing in my mind because like you've done all the work. It's just like... What's it called? Like an audio effect. Okay. So if you wrote all the lyrics and then told the computer to sing it in whatever voice, that's not the same thing? No, I don't think so. Like I think it should have to be sung by a real person. Why? It's the same as the computer making any other sound that you hear it make.

[00:09:53] But with the computer with voices, like they can do anything they want, you know? Like there's no effort that has to go into it. Yeah, but you just said that people who sing with auto-tune to help them. Like if I wrote an entire lyrics of like entire songs lyrics, but my voice sucks. So I have a computer make my voice sound better or use an entirely different voice that's not my own.

[00:10:18] Like you're telling me that those two different things are one's worthy of being able to be on the charts and one is not. Well, in the example that you're providing, I also don't think that that would be okay. Because like if your voice is unrecognizable because of the auto-tune, then people aren't going to want to watch you and listen to your music anyway. Like you'll go live or something and they're going to be like, that's not what you sound like. Okay, but if you are only putting out music and never going live, what is the harm? What is the difference? I guess that's true.

[00:10:47] Like if that's your audience, like if my voice sucked and I couldn't sing, but I wanted to express the lyrics that I wrote and I get tagged as an AI artist because an AI is singing the lyrics. Right? Like that's, you're telling me that that's not allowed. It's not okay. Why wouldn't you just get someone to sing the song for you? Why wouldn't I pay thousands of dollars to have someone else sing it? I mean, you don't have to pay thousands of dollars. There's a lot of people who like making music that would be willing to sing for you.

[00:11:16] Maybe, but then you'd still have to pay them from any money that you got from that song, right? I just, I think if you're using AI to make the entire song, it shouldn't be eligible for monetization. Oh, that's different. I, I, that's fine. But what is, what does the entire song mean? Like if you use AI to write the lyrics, if you use AI to write the music, if you're using an AI to sing, like I don't think that should be allowed to make any. But if you're using it for one of those aspects, it's fine? If you're using it to enhance, I think that's different. Enhance what?

[00:11:46] If I write the lyrics and then an AI sings it, it's not enhancing my voice. It's just singing my lyrics, right? And I don't think that's right. Why? Why not? Because I don't want AI to make my art for me. Like I think for it to be true art. That's because you're a good singer. But I think for it to be true art, it needs to be made by people. Why? An AI can't, like it doesn't have feelings. It doesn't understand like the nuance behind it.

[00:12:15] The AI doesn't have feelings, so you can't enjoy it. And also, if you use AI in that way, you're kind of fucking yourself over because so many people are not going to want to listen to you because of it. Okay, that's fine. That's so many people like you. I don't mind. I'll listen. I'll listen to things that feel nice, that have nice lyrics, that sound good. Because it's my experience to have, right? I think I would like it more if AI weren't destroying the planet. Okay, but that's an entirely separate issue.

[00:12:45] You can not like AI. I can't separate them as issues though. That's on you. You're clumping together of anything in the world that uses the word AI is just terrible. It's the worst. We can't use it. We can't have it. No. And I agree. But I think generative AI is pretty bad. Okay. And it's making people dumber. I agree it's making people dumber.

[00:13:06] But I'm saying that there are cases where I find it is a benefit to society or to individuals in society to help express themselves in ways that they wouldn't be able to normally. Why wouldn't they be able to? Because just like the example I gave, if my voice was so terrible that no one wanted to listen but I had really good lyrics,

[00:13:25] it's a lot harder to find someone to record with you or find someone to sing those lyrics or get any sort of traction with just having the lyrics and no sample of what it would sound like as opposed to having the AI sing your lyrics. Right? And then possibly going from there. Possibly having someone go, hey, I really like your lyrics. I'd like to sing some of your songs. I mean, that's the whole point of being a songwriter though. Like... What is?

[00:13:54] Like that's a whole job as songwriter. Like a lot of people can't sing so they're songwriters. I just... Yeah. I don't think that, oh, it's like too hard. Like I can't do this normally so I have to use AI to do it for me. Okay, well then not everybody's meant to create, you know? So you're saying people can't do the things they enjoy because AI is there. I think if you're going to do that again, like it shouldn't count towards like accolades. You shouldn't get counted for how many listens or making money or anything like that.

[00:14:23] Like I think it should be categorized completely separately from normal human made music. Okay, but what is that difference? You're saying that if I wrote the lyrics to a song and had AI sing it, I deserve no money. But if I wrote the lyrics to a song and you sang it, then I deserve money. Yeah, I would think that's an important distinction. Why? Why is that different in your mind? Because AI can't take credit. So? So you're taking credit for something that you didn't do. Why can't you?

[00:14:50] You Googled the other day that there was an AI artist that popped up on Spotify, right? Yeah. And it immediately made me like the music less. Right, but that's your preconceived notion. That's what we're trying to talk about is it makes you less like it. Whether you like it less or not, the song doesn't change, right? Like how good the song is, how you experience the song doesn't change.

[00:15:14] It's just you attributing the word AI with negativity, negativity there. I just don't think that using AI to create anything in that situation or that way is an ethical use of AI. What would be an ethical use that's acceptable to you then? I think using AI for things like research or like if we had an AI to do like chores and shit, that would be something.

[00:15:41] Okay, but there are studies that are using generative AI to predict models and predict things. But you've also claimed in this conversation that all generative AI is bad. But that's because of the effects it has on the like planet. So if we use generative AI to solve like cure cancer, it would still be negative in your mind because it's hurting the planet? I think it's a cost risk thing that you have to go over.

[00:16:08] But yes, I think overall like what's the point in using AI to cure cancer if we've destroyed our water supply and can't survive anyways? But you're not going to. Like what? I understand that, but you're making all these like 100% claims without thinking each of them through. I just think that it's doing yourself a disservice if you think like I can't create or I can't do this without AI because I have a shitty voice or I have this.

[00:16:36] Like, okay, so learn, you know, like you can train your voice. You can improve your voice. So people that like say survive some trauma and can no longer physically sing, you're telling them sucks to suck. You don't get to express yourself. There's other ways they can express themselves. Like it's not truthfully expressing yourself if you're doing it with AI. Like the AI is expressing it for you. In your perspective, yes. But again, you don't know.

[00:17:03] Like if you suddenly lost the ability to sing anything ever again, but you could take old samples of your voice and make and have AI make a song or write, sing your lyrics in your voice and you could hear yourself sing a new song that you wrote. That might give you more hope than just sitting in a room. Well, I think it's a different issue if it's in your own voice. I think you should be able to give permission for AI to use your likeness. I don't think that you should be able to do it with other voices.

[00:17:34] I agree. Don't steal other people's voices. But who's to say that some of these artists aren't doing that? Because that's what AI, generative AI does in the form of like music and stuff like that. Like they're not... Again, you're making all these blanket statements. If I have AI that I'm specifically telling to use my voice to create a song with my lyrics, just because it's generative, you're saying that it shouldn't be allowed and I shouldn't be able to express myself that way.

[00:18:03] I just feel like expressing yourself like that isn't really worth anything because you're not really the one who's doing it. Not to you. But from other people's perspectives, it is. Like I'm not trying to persuade you to use AI. I'm just trying to have an answer of like, why are you denouncing every use of AI that ever pops up?

[00:18:28] Whether it's for science, whether it's for, you know, people expressing themselves. I do think that we've gone too far with it and there are a lot of things that don't need AI in them. And I do think it is very bad for the environment. That is correct. And there needs to be some scalability on it overall as far as like who's using it, how it's applied, how much are we willing to use it before we ruin the world. But I'm not going to denounce every use of AI as the worst thing ever.

[00:19:00] I just, I think that like the, where it's at right now, most uses of AI are the negative impacts outweigh the positive benefits. It could be. Yeah. I think so. And I think, honestly, it feels ableist to say that that is the only way that these people can express themselves is like use AI. Like there's so many other ways that you could choose to express yourself. Say if I lost my voice, like my first thought wouldn't be, oh, I can use AI to make myself sing.

[00:19:30] It'd be like, okay, like I can still write. I can still, you know, be creative in other ways, but I don't think everybody just has the right to use AI to make art because it's easier. People don't have the right to do that? Why not? I just don't think that they should. That's different. I agree they should not do that, but they definitely have the right to do that. Yeah. You are allowed to do it.

[00:19:54] And I think denouncing those people because they used it, like, yeah, it's an easier path. We as a species will always look for the easier path. That is, that's how we live. That's how you and I live. Yeah. I just, I don't see the point in doing creative endeavors if you're not willing to put the effort into it. That's because there are not very many roadblocks for your current creative endeavors.

[00:20:21] If you are someone who is physically blocked from doing the one thing in life that you have a true passion for, and you can use the easiest solution to accomplish it again, I believe that that person would. I would, I believe they would too. I just don't think it's necessarily right. You think it's not morally right for someone to express themselves the easiest way they can?

[00:20:47] And you think they have to, they should struggle to express themselves because the word AI is involved? I do think sometimes that you should have to struggle to express yourselves. Like, there's so many artists in this world that wouldn't have existed if, like, what's, like Frida Kahlo. She never painted until she got into a fucking train accident and couldn't leave her bed. And she taught herself how to paint. Like, I just, I think it's doing yourself a disservice to rely on AI to do creative pursuits for you just because it's easier. Yes.

[00:21:16] In most cases it is a disservice. But in some cases where it could be the only outlet to express yourself, I'm not going to denounce it. I can see that. But I just think, even talking about it, like, people will cancel you for. For what? For, like, being, like, positive about AI in any form. Like, a lot of people get really upset about it.

[00:21:46] That's fine. That's understandable. They also have to realize that most scientific breakthroughs in the modern age deal with AI in some aspect. Yeah, but it's not all generative AI and the ones that are making the music, a majority of them are coming from generative AI. Okay, so if we use generative AI in science, suddenly it's a good thing? That's what I'm saying. Like, the cost impact that you're pushing on it, right?

[00:22:16] But, again, I think the most negative thing that people are attributing to it is because it's scaled up so much without any regulations or anybody or anything to keep it in check. But I don't necessarily see it overall as, like, it's going to stick around. It's not going to go away. Yeah, I agree with that. To just say, oh, it needs to stop. I don't enjoy anything to do with it ever, I think is what you're going to find is you're going to be left behind then.

[00:22:46] If you don't know how to use it or if you don't know how it's being used or what we're going to be using it for as a species, because you're – I'm not saying you need to use it. I'm not saying you need to be for or against it. I'm saying it's here. It's like if you talk to someone and said that they don't believe in cars because they're bad for the environment. You can believe in them or not, but they're not going to go away anytime soon. I don't know.

[00:23:11] I feel like with AI, it's a little different because, like, most people will need a car to get around, especially in this country. You don't need to use AI. I'm not saying you need it. When cars were first invented, you didn't need a car, but they stuck around, and then everything was built around them. That's where I'm going with it. Like, the future of our species is going to involve AI, just like the future of the 1900s humans involved cars.

[00:23:41] I don't know that I agree with that all the way. There are good uses. There are bad uses. Where are we not using it? Just because, like, all these companies are trying to push it into everything. Correct. But as consumers, a lot of consumers don't want it. Correct. And it's – Companies are going bankrupt left and right because they're trying to use it. Correct. And that's good. It's a good thing that they are. It's the same thing when Bluetooth was invented. Every fucking piece of technology suddenly had Bluetooth for no reason, right?

[00:24:06] And then consumers, through their selectiveness, determined what needed or what they used Bluetooth in and what they didn't. And then you saw a scale back of what had Bluetooth and what didn't. It's going to be the same with AI. Like, I don't need AI and a fork. And I think that it should be highly regulated. Correct. Yeah, I think so too. I think it should be regulated.

[00:24:29] But, like I said, I'm not denouncing the entire thing as, oh, all AI is bad and evil and we should never use it or even talk about it. There are good uses for it. The problem with AI, though, is it's not like any other technology where, you know, overall it can have really good effects. I think a lot of the effects of AI are negative and outweigh the benefit. Even just from, like, a lying perspective.

[00:24:56] Like, like, AI porn has become a really big problem where they can literally just take anybody's body and generate it or any space and generate a body. That is negative things. But you can't put that genie back in that bottle, you know? Do you know of every positive and every negative use of AI? No. No. That's why I'm so like your feed and mostly my feed, too, is all the negative things of AI.

[00:25:21] But watching most, like, science videos or, like, studies that are coming out, most studies, like, are they using AI in some capacity to either map genes and study diseases or look at the stars and determine where we can and can't fly, where we can and can't see? Like, there are good uses of it. And it's progressing the species. I don't know. A lot of studies have shown that AI is getting worse as people use it. Oh, yeah.

[00:25:50] I mean, the generative AI especially because it's getting stupider or it's giving stupider answers because people are getting stupider in general by relying on it. And then just it's a whole fun cycle. But I don't see it going away. And I think the biggest problem is it's really just fucking up people's livelihoods. Like, if AI is going to be here, that's one thing.

[00:26:13] But people aren't necessarily just going to give in and let AI into everything because it's not just, oh, like, this is a technology that can do all these great things. Like, it is something that literally has the power to change the world. I would – obviously, it's not destructive in the same way, but I feel like it's kind of the equivalent of the atomic bomb. Like, we got it. We didn't understand the ramifications of what it was to make something like this and use it to, like, destroy human life.

[00:26:41] And then as soon as we used it, we were like, fuck. We should never do those two again. Like, those two, bad. Don't do it again. I mean, we didn't decide that. The world, like, collectively outside of us was like, hey, don't do that. And I mean, I think it's kind of the same with AI. Like, it – I don't think we truly know how bad the effects of it are yet because it's still in kind of the first generation of being available for public use. I think it's – the ramifications are already here.

[00:27:11] Like, digital manufacturers, like RAM manufacturing, the price is incredibly high. Next to data centers that are using up all this, the water is being poisoned. Like, it's bad for a lot of people and a lot of things. Because, so, absolutely, you, like, we as consumers should scale back what you're using AI for. Right? You don't need to use it for research. Just Google it. You don't need to use it for a lot of things. So, like, scale it back. Also, I was right.

[00:27:40] There is a fork that had Bluetooth in it and the company went out of business. Weird. And – Like, if AI had no, like, negative effects on our environment and things like that, I would be fine using it for research and things like that. Because when I – I started using ChatGPT when I was doing my degree before I knew, like, all about it. And this is why I need to know, like, it reflects the user more than anything. Because mine was so smart. I did not have issues.

[00:28:06] Like, I would – I didn't use it to do all the research and find things for me, but I would use it to help me organize. And then, obviously, like, once I learned more about it, I was like, I don't want to do that anymore. But if it had no negative effects in that situation, like, I think it would be a really great tool. I just think that it shouldn't be widely commercial available at this point in the process until they've worked out all the problems.

[00:28:31] The problems are that, A, people are getting dumber, and, B, it's ruining the environment. Those are really, like, the two problems that we have with it. I know you don't agree, but I really just don't think that it's not the same as, like, writing your own song or, like, painting your own picture. I don't think it's the same. I feel like if that's – if you just want to take the easy way out, you really shouldn't make art. Because art is something you make because you love it, not because you just want to put it out there.

[00:28:59] I'm not arguing any of that. All right? My one and my only point to that whole thing was that it can be a tool for people to express themselves in the art form that they love, that they would otherwise unable to be expressed through. That's what I said. I just think not everybody deserves to be, like, a famous singer, for example. I don't think they're famous. I think a majority of people using AI are, in fact, not right now.

[00:29:28] Mostly because people see the term AI and they immediately turn it off or whatever. But I don't see it as, like, a make or break, like, oh, my gosh, it says AI and turning it off immediately. There are a ton of things that you use unknowingly that has AI in it. Even with just that, like, AI artist that keeps coming up on your Spotify, like, if you listen to their lyrics, like, they don't make sense. Which ones?

[00:29:57] Like, the boots on the scrub bed floor. What? The value of the price. What are you looking at? What do you, what do we... Well, now I'm looking through lyrics. Okay. I don't know what lyrics we've, we've seen. Like, what are you, what are we talking about? There's just a lot of silence here, babe. Okay. Well, I, I will look it up later. Okay. But yeah, I just, I don't know. It just kind of feels icky. What does?

[00:30:27] Just like, I feel like I would just much rather support someone who is making art from, like, a place of love and passion and doing it themselves rather than someone who's just doing it because they want. Like, I just, I honestly probably think that a lot of these AI artists on Spotify and such are just doing it because they're trying to make money. A lot of them probably are, but you can't tell me that every single one of them is.

[00:30:57] Like, statistically, there has to be someone that is struggling to express themselves and uses AI as an outlet and gets utterly shit on for it online. Mm-hmm. But still loves it enough anyway and has the passion to continue making music or whatever they're doing. But overall, like, I don't think it's the worst.

[00:31:24] I think it just, like I said, there's too many unknowns around AI right now. And I just don't think that the majority of people should use it until a lot of the problems are worked out. What are the unknowns that you're talking about? Just like, like, AI data centers. They're fucking terrible for the planet and the water cycle. That's not an unknown. What are the unknowns you're talking about? The unknown is trying to fix it. They're not working. They're not, like, these companies don't care. Okay. But, again, that's still known.

[00:31:54] I'm asking you, what are the unknowns that you're talking about that surround AI that have you on the, I don't know if I like it or not kind of feeling right now? Like, those are known things that are valid, very valid reasons to not like AI. But you just said that there's a lot of unknowns with AI. What are the unknowns? Like, it ruining the job industry, for example. Okay. What about it?

[00:32:23] Employers are unhappy. Employees are unhappy. Hmm. They keep using it still. Okay. What's going on? It's not fun. Like, we talk about fun things. I'm having fun. I'm not. I'm getting some insight into your brain. I'm having fun. Like, so, like, a lot of job postings now, they use AI to scan your resume and everything like that. Okay. They get mad if you use AI to write your resume for you.

[00:32:51] But that's the only way to get your resume seen because the AI throws away everything that doesn't perfectly match what you're looking for. Okay. So, employers are unhappy. Employees are unhappy. Yet, both keep using it because they don't feel like they have a choice. Okay. But with that example, if you were an employee, employer, excuse me, at a company and it was your, like, you're the only one in HR and, like, you're the hiring manager, right?

[00:33:20] And they said, hey, we need you to hire a new XYZ position. Okay. You have a week. It's a critical position. Here are the 5,000 applicants. What are you going to do? Are you going to spend 20-hour days looking through all of those? No, but that's, like, you don't even need AI to do that for you. That's what filters are for. Filters of what? Like, you create filters. Like, I only want people with three plus years of experience. Okay. So, you do what?

[00:33:50] You ask a computer to filter it for you. But it's not the same as using AI to do it for you. Because AI, they're using AI to, like, scrape people's resumes and then just throw it away or not. I think you're confusing the two. If I hit Control-F on my keyboard and search through a document, it is the same thing as telling the computer to search through those documents. It's not using artificial intelligence to search through it. It's just using programming.

[00:34:19] But they are using the AI to do it for them. And a lot of companies are now using AI to be, like, the hiring and firing manager. That part I don't agree with, right? But to search through resumes is a very basic function that you should be able to use a program to do.

[00:34:35] If you're looking for specific keywords or specific people with X amount of experience, I'm not going to read 5,000 applicants when only 1,000 of them have 10 years experience and that's what the position calls for. As opposed to me going, me putting it all 5,000 in a program and saying, I only want 10 years plus experience. And then it filters out 4,000.

[00:35:01] That sucks for those 4,000 because maybe they can do the job better, right? But that hiring manager was told 10 years experience, that's the minimum. They're saving themselves those 20-hour days. So hit Control-F. I've also talked to you about this before, but they're also just creating this pipeline of people that has nobody to take over their jobs for them. Correct. And AI can't do most of those jobs. No, that has been an issue since before AI.

[00:35:30] Like there's been people in like the IBM industry that had years and years of experience, but no one had ever been trained for it. That's why IBM, I don't know if they still do, but they had a free like training program where you could just go online and they would train you on how to use their systems and then put you like physically get you interviews and place you with some of their companies as like apprentices in those companies. Because they had no one to backfill it, right?

[00:35:58] Like that problem specifically has been happening since before this AI boom. Yeah, I think AI is just making all of these issues far worse. Correct. I agree. And it's just not a good time. It's not a good time. 550? What do we... It's not a good time. It's not a good time to like have all this technology and stuff and like... You're saying we should go back to the Stone Age. No. Why not?

[00:36:28] I'll get you a chisel. We'll start writing stories. I do think schools need to have students handwrite everything again. Yeah. At least up until a certain age. Or even if it's just like, oh, your rough draft has to be handwritten. You're like, you have to write it in class or something, you know, but... These kids are fucking stupid. Seriously. I do think AI is ruining like the education system more than anything. Education and the environment. It's terrible.

[00:36:55] And then the other issue for me is that people will just accuse anybody of using AI because they don't... Like, oh, the M-dash is a sign of using AI. No. AI has been trained on using like writer's works and good writers use punctuation properly. Like... I think it's like, you made no mistakes. AI did this. Or like, I had a guy accuse me of using AI in a story I wrote because I repeated a word a few times.

[00:37:23] And I was like, yeah, that's a really common thing writers do. That's why you have to read through your rough draft and look for your filler words. Or like, like Jordan has noticed I'm always snaking down spines and hissing at doors. Like, you... Your alliteration is hilarious on first drafts. Because I'll read through it and I'll stop. And I'm like, did I not just read this? And I have to scroll back up and find other instances. And I was like, dang, this thing's snaking again, huh?

[00:37:53] And you're like, why'd you say it like that? And I'm like, because it's in this paragraph three times. I asked my friend because she writes a lot of fan fiction. And I asked her, I was like, I say this a lot. Like, what is yours? And she goes, for some reason, I always have people's hearts jumping into their throat. But, you know, it's like stuff like that. Like, yes, it's important to be aware of it. But AI does these things because people do. And AI is trained on people. Yeah, I mean, they're fucking little copycats and shit.

[00:38:21] That's why, like, with that song, I was like, oh, is this AI? Like, let me look it up. Because maybe they just have a really robotic sounding program or something. You know, like. But this episode is too long and I'm hungry. So let's get going. This episode. I know. I don't want to record the next one anymore. It's been 40 minutes. What are you talking about? This is two. Are we just going to, you're just going to split it? Yeah, you are. I believe in you. Why do I have to split it? Because I'll be out of state. Wait.

[00:38:51] What do you mean? Why do I got to split it? Jesus Christ. I thought that's what the assignment was. You said we got to record two episodes. Let's do it. You should probably do the outro and the intro. I did the intro. Well, for that. For 169. Yeah, we're in episode 170 by now. That's the end of episode 169. Thanks so much. I hope you liked the AI discussion today.

[00:39:21] And follow for more. Dude, you're going to have to split that and put it backwards and then start over with a new intro. And then like the finishing touches on some AI discussions. It's going to be great for you. Just split it at half an hour. Please stop talking. Then you got. I was trying to have like a whole break. So I knew. We got 20 more minutes. No, I was trying to have. What are we talking about? Now it's going to be so hard for me to split it. I was trying to have an end and then I was going to do an intro and you messed it up. I didn't mess up shit.

[00:39:49] All you got to do is click and then move that audio somewhere else. It ain't this difficult. You're making. You're hyping this up in your head. You know what? I've already got to edit five episodes. Yeah. What are we going with here? Look, if you really can't do it, okay, just ask ChatGPT. And then, if you can't split these two episodes, just put them out as one long episode and put

[00:40:18] 169 slash 170. It ain't this complicated. Like you're inventing so many problems without actually looking for solutions. Because I'm hungry and irritated. You know what's funny, audience chat? Listen to this. Ma'am over here, she did not have dinner, then had the chutzpah to tell me that we should record two episodes at 5 p.m. and is now wondering why she's hungry.

[00:40:48] Because it's like 6 o'clock. Really? Is that how time works? Shut up. You're getting so restless over there. It's amazing. Anyway, we've been in episode 130 for like 10 minutes now. 130? Yeah, I'm going back in time. What was it supposed to be? 170? 170. Dude, it's late. It's almost 1900 or something. It's for those European folks.

[00:41:18] Sometimes when I'm using military time, I get like messed up. It irritates me when people call it military time. Okay, 24 hour clock. Yeah, like it's not like a standard for the military. Like in America, yes, the military is who primarily uses it. But there are so many practices in America that use the 24 hour clock. Okay. And it just gets attributed to the military for some reason. The 24 hour clock.

[00:41:45] My problem is sometimes I'll see 1400 and my brain goes four. Or 1600. Six. Why are you trying to convert it? Because my brain automatically is like, oh, 1800. That's 6 p.m. That is correct. So like, but because I only learned how to use the 24 hour clock because of you, it's

[00:42:14] not like, it still takes me a second, even though it's like. I mean, every once in a while, if I'm trying to schedule things and I'm not using 24 hour clock, yeah, it gets me. I'm like, oh, shoot. It's not nine o'clock. It's seven. Like, however, most of the time I just say. Yeah, it just takes me like a second. But for some reason, I have a lot of friends who they'll see my phone and they get really confused. They're like, what time is it? And I'm like, it's 5 p.m.

[00:42:45] Yeah, that drives me crazy too. Talking with anybody outside of people who can do basic math. I don't, what, what, what time it, just subject 12. It's not this complicated. I used to have to do the same thing for when I was working at Starbucks for cold brew because

[00:43:08] we do it for 18 hours and everybody'd be like, oh my gosh, 18 hours from now. And I'd be like, just add six to the current time. And they were like, whoa, I'm like, I know. Like, I'm not the best at math and shit, you know, but like some people make me look so smart. What?

[00:43:35] I actually, I think I really hate it though because like you'll ask me a question and catch me off guard. And then if I don't answer it right away, you're like, oh, how do you not know this? And I'm like, I wasn't expecting to get a quiz right now. Shut up and stop looking at me while I try to use my brain. Wait, give me a question as an example for the audience. What's 124 times three? I've never asked you that because I don't believe you would know the answer.

[00:44:03] I ask you things like, hey, what are we doing tomorrow at three? Like those are the types of questions that I ask. What's happening with you in your chair? I'm uncomfortable. Like a toddler getting antsy in her seat. I've been in school too long. My skin itches and I don't like it here. The lights are on. Yeah.

[00:44:32] It's like, why is the big light on? Why is the big light? I was, I was all for doing this episode in the dark and you were like, nah. No, because then it won't look good on camera. Also correct. Yes. And after you went through all this trouble to put the doors back up. True. I like it when you answer your own question though sometimes. What do you mean? Like just now you said, why is the big light on? That's your question. I said, we should have done this in the dark.

[00:45:01] And you went, no, then the video will look bad. The answer to your question. No, I wasn't talking about right now. I was saying because you said about the light in school and shit. So I was like, oh, why is the big light on? I wasn't talking about right now. Your body language tells me you were talking about right now. I'm so hungry. See? I'm just tired. Five episodes is too many in one day. Yeah.

[00:45:31] And for the chat, yeah, this is episode five that we've recorded today because I'm out of town for the next, or when this comes out, the past four and a half weeks. So we had to prerecord all of these episodes. That's the story behind that. And one of us is just, I guess, more dedicated to the art form. The other one uses AI, I guess. I don't make it easier on yourself.

[00:46:01] I don't know. You're the worst. I just am so antsy and I feel really uncomfortable. Speaking of ants, I saw an article today about the Asian needle ant that is apparently killing off a ton of other species of ants. I've not heard of that. They're found in 22 states in the US right now. And they're, I think they're considered an invasive species. Oh. Yeah. And their sting, if you're allergic to it, is like real bad.

[00:46:31] Like being allergic to a bee sting. They've been seen in Mississippi. Thank goodness. What's going on in Mississippi right now that we're concerned about that? Nothing. That's just kind of close to us. What? Kind of close? Mississippi? That's what you're going with? Yeah. How many states away is Mississippi? Two? Two states away? That's what you consider close? Two states.

[00:47:00] Let me look at like the closest part of Mississippi. How long it would take to drive there from here, right? Let's see. And you're worried about an ant that's coming over here. It's like a 600 to 700 mile drive, depending on the part of Texas. Yep. But from where we are, about 600 miles. And you're like, those ants are coming for us.

[00:47:31] You see, there's also like a, what is it? Like a screw worm or something that's gotten really bad? I have not seen that. I just saw the article about the Asian needle ants. I'm going to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. The new world screw worm. New world screw. Where are we discovering new world? I don't know why it's called that. Oh, do you see the guy? I don't know if it was recent, but do you know about the North Sentinelese Island that no one's allowed to visit? Is that the one with the snakes?

[00:48:01] No. It's the one with the uncontacted tribe that's like forbidden from anyone to get there. And anyone who shows up, they instantly kill them. Yeah. Because they're cannibals, aren't they? I have no idea. Yeah. Not relevant to the story, I guess. Like they could be the most technologically advanced AI users we ever knew, but they kill people who show up. So the rest of the world has decided, hey, let's leave them alone.

[00:48:24] Anyway, I don't know if it was recently, but I saw there was a guy who just is facing up to five years in prison for trying to give the tribe Dr. Pepper. And I was like, what kind of a deranged fucking... Honestly, he's lucky the only thing he would be getting is prison time. Yeah, he should be dead. But like, I just...

[00:48:53] I think it's interesting. Like if you could get away with giving that island one thing, what do you think he would give them and why? This man thought Dr. Pepper was the choice. A hand crank lantern. A hand crank lantern. Okay, why? Because think about how cool it would be to see artificial light for the first time.

[00:49:26] And then you could always have it. But it's hand crank, so they don't need technology. They could just have a little lamp. But you think they'd be able to like understand to turn it? Yeah, I think they... And wouldn't like kill it from witchcraft? Yeah, like I don't think that tribal people are stupid. I think they might not understand it, but I think they'd mess with it, you know? And somebody would figure out, oh, this thing moves. I think they could figure it out.

[00:49:52] I'm saying that if you were the first person to turn an object and then it just lights up, you and that object are getting killed. I think that's what's going to happen. I don't know. Maybe I'm just not a terrible person, so those things don't occur to me. You don't have to be a terrible person. That's their way of life. I think they're great people.

[00:50:13] Or if I could give them like a whole thing, some electricity and a Nintendo 64 with a TV. What? Teach them how to play video games. Okay. Or, oh, maybe one of those, like the book. The book in a language they don't know?

[00:50:42] You can teach yourself a language you don't know. That's what the Rosetta Stone did. These are a tribe of people who attack anything on sight. And you're like, I'll give them a book. Yeah. Worst case scenario, they can use it as a stand. And look at the pretty pictures. What would you give them? What would you give them? Hmm. Probably disease.

[00:51:12] Like a smallpox blanket? No, I'm just saying that's like how all white men do it. You go to a place for the first time and you just go, high five, and then they die. Have you seen that thing where it's like, oh, what's a line from a movie that could encompass all of human history and someone just reposts that line from Pocahontas where it's like, these white men are dangerous. I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think the world would be much better if it

[00:51:40] were run by matriarchal societies instead of patriarchal. Why? Because in the few matriarchal societies they've seen, they're much more peaceful. They have almost no conflict. Family stays with like the moms. Everybody is required to kind of like help support families. I just think there would be a lot less violence in war. Not that women are never violent.

[00:52:10] Do you believe that the UK would have been better off without parliament and just being like, Elizabeth, let's do it? No. I'm not saying like a monarchy. I'm saying a matriarchal society. Of what? Just in general. Okay.

[00:52:36] But like, describe it for me then because I'm not. Well, like, you know what the patriarchy is and like how over the years like it's a way that just upholds like these negative ideals. So you just want like our same political system, but just all women. No. Well, that's a matriarchy. It's not political though. What are we talking about? A society with no rules and women in charge?

[00:53:02] No, it's not a pol- like you're confusing politics with culture. I'm not confusing culture. You're telling me that matriarchal societies are generally more peaceful, right? So what does the system of government look like in this matriarchal society? Like men and women would still be equal. They're not equal now.

[00:53:30] I mean, still be equal. I just think that tracing family lines and things like that through women makes a lot more sense. One, because we give birth. What are we following the tracing family lines? Like something I saw the other day really stuck with me that like you don't have any true maiden names.

[00:53:54] Like my last name before I got married came from my dad and my mom's last name came from her dad. And it's like there's just no- Yeah. It's so difficult to even conceive of what a society ran by women would look like because it's never really been done. Yeah, but you just said matriarchal societies statistically are more peaceful. So is there one you're referring to? Yes, there's- let me see if I can find it.

[00:54:25] We've learned about it in my sociology of sex class. I think it's like near Nepal. Okay, it's in the Nepali foothill community of Pinaudi. This is like a whole article, but- Like I agree it makes more sense to trace lineage through women than men because that would be like true to a bloodline instead of men.

[00:54:56] I just- I don't know. It's hard to explain it. Like I don't- I don't want it to be like misandrist, you know? So what are you- what are you wanting to change then? Because generally when we say like patriarchal society, it's men in charge of that society. So with a matriarchal society- Yeah, I guess I do- I think women should be in charge. Okay. I got that part.

[00:55:24] I'm asking what it would look like. Like is it just the same system like say the U.S. has but just women in charge? Is it like the same- like is it a monarchy with a matriarch? I think it works best in like small communities. Like anything works best in a smaller community to like look at. Yeah.

[00:55:47] But like if women are head of household, for example, like how does that change the way that people are raised up? Like I think that really my only issue with patriarchy, which it might be a same issue if we were raised with matriarchies instead, but is that it- It is negative for both men and women.

[00:56:10] Like patriarchy comes with a lot of like socioeconomic expectations, but like men will get really upset sometimes and they're like, well, men have to be super strong and like men have to do this. And it's like, okay, but who set up that system? Like it's other men- Men and women. That have done that to you. And women. How have women done it? Well, you benefit from it. Like if you were back in the day in a tribe- No, you don't have to smirk. It's okay.

[00:56:37] If you were back in the day in a tribe of men and women and all the men said, we're not going to fight for you anymore. You as women would go, no, you're stronger. You fight for us. You benefit from that as an early tribesperson. You don't think you would benefit from the men hunting? Women can hunt too though. I think they can. I think that men are better at it in those days and it just stemmed from there of men having more typical like physical roles, like physically demanding roles.

[00:57:06] Yeah, like typically, but I don't like, again, men set up that system. We have these expectations. You can't say men set up that system. Men and women set up that system. I mean, not originally. I don't think so. Why? You think every woman said, no, I will gather and you will gather with me? And the men went, no, I'll go hunt. No. Like if you go that far back, I think the issue starts in like medieval Europe.

[00:57:37] Because a big part of patriarchal beliefs are upholding their dominion over women. So like. I think the biggest stem of it is just physical stature. That's it. I think no matter what society you're looking at, no matter who's in charge, who's not in charge, what the roles are, what the responsibilities are.

[00:58:02] It is the physically stronger of the two species are in charge. Like look at lions. Look at modern day lions. There's one male. And his job is to kill like other males. Right. Got it. But when it comes to hunting and actually like raising children and discipline and whatnot, it's all females. And statistically, female lions are stronger. That's it.

[00:58:30] And in our species, throughout all of history, men are just stronger. And the strongest being of the two in a species are in charge. Yeah, just humans take it too far. Like. Sure. Dolphins do too. But like, like lions don't kill other lions for the fun of it. They kill it because it's a biological imperative to ensure our species survives. It's not their species survive. It's their bloodline. Yeah. Well, and then lions also don't like rape each other, for example. Like. Yeah.

[00:59:00] I get it. Typically men do that. Women do too. But typically it's men doing that. I got it. Humans are not the greatest species. I got it. I just. You're saying that only men. Okay. Okay. You never just let me talk and have my opinion. It's always like you have to like rebut it for somehow. Yeah. It's a discussion. We go back and forth in opinions. So what is yours? I don't know. I'm hungry. Okay. Good talk. That was fun.

[00:59:29] It's been like an hour. Uh-huh. Like I don't disagree that matriarchal societies are probably more peaceful or matriarchs are better in certain aspects compared to patriarchs. Right? And the whole thing I was saying in the, like you like went off this whole tangent on was that the patriarchy is mostly upheld by men, especially in these days.

[00:59:53] Like, yes, women do it too, but because they are told by the patriarchy that's what they should do and accept. It's just like it tells men from a young age, like don't cry. You're too sensitive. Like boys don't do that. It's negative for both sides. I agree it's negative for both sides, but your further point that got us on that tangent was you saying that men set up this version of society solely on their own and women had nothing to do with it.

[01:00:22] I disagree with you on that. I think they're both to blame on that part as well of how it is set up. Yeah. I just don't think the blame is like equal. Maybe not. But your point was that men have decided that this is the way the world is. I do believe that women played a part in that. I do too, but I also know that women have spent a very long time trying to earn these rights and freedoms and such that men are just granted.

[01:00:53] Okay. And there's also the sacrifices on the opposite side as well. Like men may be granted those things, but they're also registered for the draft. Okay. I think women should have to do that too. I think so too, but I'm looking at the society as it is right now. I don't think anybody should register for the draft. I don't believe the draft is moral. The draft mandatory military service in most countries is only men. I think that's better. There are certain aspects that in society that favor women and that favor men.

[01:01:22] In a lot of countries though, it's for both. Like South Korea is both, right? And some Middle Eastern countries is both. I'm looking it up. South Korea women are not required to perform military service. Oh, they're not required. So I guess they just do it. They can volunteer for it, but only the males have mandatory military service in South Korea. But yeah, like that's another thing.

[01:01:52] Like it's the same thing. Like men are doing that to other men. Like you shouldn't have to register for that in my opinion. Or if you are a country that's going to make men register, your women should have to register too. Barring they're not like pregnant or something crazy, but there should also be medical exclusions for men too. And I'm sure there are in South Korea or other countries that have those services. Like there's a country that literally does a, what's it called?

[01:02:19] A lottery to see if you have to do military service or not. I thought that was so funny because there were so many gay men just like, just, oh my God, being so flamboyant and fun. Like falling down if they got in or like screaming because they didn't. And just, I think that's fun. But I don't know. It's way too complex of an issue because obviously there's thousands and thousands and thousands of years behind these societies.

[01:02:47] So it's really hard to say it's one way or the other. But I do think a lot of times the men in these societies aren't helping themselves by setting, like continuing to uphold these systems. Yeah, cry more dudes. I think you, I think you and I, as well as a lot of other people, when they talk about things like this, get sidetracked with the past as opposed to ideas that could lead to a better future.

[01:03:15] Like we, for instance, got sidetracked on how this came about instead of discussing what would matriarchal society look like? Yeah. Or what would a society that would be better look like? You know? I think that's what emotionalistic stuff too. That's what I'm saying. It's much easier to go into the past than it is to look to the future. I don't know. I was like, I have a pretty good solution, but I can't say it on video or I might get visited by the U.S. government. Yeah. Good thing there's no schools nearby.

[01:03:44] No, I would never do anything to innocent children. They're not innocent. If you watched last week's episode, you'll know she hates all kids for using AI. I don't hate kids. For using AI. I might hate people for using AI. Including children. Okay, that's enough for this episode. I'm hungry and we need to make dinner. So, if you liked these combo episodes that someone is going to have to split later, then I hope you will subscribe, like, follow, give a shout out, comment, whatever you want to do.

[01:04:12] And if you have any thoughts about our discussions, please leave a comment. Let us know what you think because I got irritated. Really? Usually. What were you irritated about? It's kind of a daily occurrence. I'm irritated that I'm hungry and you made me record for a fucking hour. You said you wanted to do two. I didn't think it would take us this long. We normally go to, like, 23, 24 minutes. We do half-hour episodes. Whatever. Half-hour times two? That's the end of the episode. Help me out with this math, folks. We hope that you had a good time.

[01:04:42] Do it at home by yourself. I know that I had a great time. It's about an hour if you're in the common realm. Stop. What are you doing? I don't want to do this anymore. Goodbye, everybody. I might have to edit that out. What? I don't want to play with you anymore. Throws Woody on the ground.